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For varied causes, January 6 rioters have been held collectively in a segregated wing of the D.C. jail that they got here to name the “Patriot Pod.” They developed their very own rituals and inside jokes, and bolstered each other’s narratives. Over time, the anticipated occurred: They grew to become additional radicalized. And thru connections with right-wing media, they’ve tried to recast themselves with phrases reminiscent of political prisoner and hostage, which the presidential candidate Donald Trump has now adopted as his personal.
On this episode, we comply with a younger rioter from the Patriot Pod who went into jail a mischievous goofball and emerged prepared to die for the MAGA trigger. We inform, for the primary time, an inside story of precisely what occurred inside the pod, the way it unfold out to the world, and what this tight-knit group is planning for the longer term.
That is the fifth episode of We Stay Right here Now, a six-part collection about what occurred after we discovered that our new neighbors had been supporting January 6 insurrectionists.
The next is a transcript of the episode:
Hanna Rosin: In Could of 2024, a brand new individual was hanging round our neighbors’ home—a younger man, contemporary out of jail, who was spending nights on the “Eagle’s Nest.” Round us, Micki referred to him as “the little boy.” His actual identify is Brandon Fellows.
[Music]
Rosin: Brandon had come to the Capitol on January 6 armed with a pretend orange beard that appeared prefer it was produced from his mother’s leftover yarn and a bizarre knitted hat. He was having enjoyable till somebody in entrance of him began smashing a window with a cane, which prompted a cop to swing his baton, after which Brandon freaked out.
Brandon Fellows: I’m like, Oh my god. Holy shit. Holy shit. I mentioned it, like, 5 occasions, and I’m identical to, Yeah. They clearly don’t need us in there. That’s what I mentioned in my thoughts. I’m not moving into there. I’m not getting hit. I like my face. I’m not going to get hit. I’m not doing that.
Rosin: So Brandon simply hung round for some time, did some individuals watching. Finally, he wandered over to the opposite facet of the constructing, the place, based on him, he noticed cops simply sort of passively letting rioters inside. So he climbed by means of a window and ended up in Oregon Senator Jeff Merkley’s workplace along with his toes up on the desk, smoking a joint.
I had this concept of Brandon as, like, the Seth Rogan of insurrectionists: goofball, excessive by midday, not precisely militia materials.
Rosin: Are you Brandon?
Fellows: Sure.
Rosin: I’m Hanna. Hello.
Fellows: Good to fulfill you.
Rosin: However the Brandon I met three years later appeared totally different: completely beardless, conspicuously match. He confirmed up at this Memorial Day march that Micki organized a couple of week after he was launched from jail.
Lauren Ober: Hey, Micki. How far are you going?
Micki Witthoeft: To the jail.
Rosin: The counterprotesters had been already trailing with megaphones, so Micki was strict. Keep on the sidewalks. Don’t trigger bother.
Witthoeft: I’m not occupied with any sort of battle.
Ober: However newly launched Brandon was having an excessive amount of enjoyable to obey. A D.C. resident informed him to get off his property. Brandon yelled again, “I used to be on the Capitol on January 6!” A bunch of fellows in MAGA hats saluted him, “Political prisoner. Thanks for sticking it out!” Marchers cheered him on as he walked by, took selfies, requested questions.
Marcher: Did you’re feeling such as you had been going to get your ass kicked every so often, being in a D.C. jail? I imply, I might suppose that when you’re a white boy in D.C. jail, you’d be getting your ass kicked.
Fellows: It’s complete tradition shock. It’s loopy. However I survived. I solely bought into one battle.
Rosin: I used to be occupied with Brandon as a result of he was one of many solely launched J6ers who got here straight again to D.C., a one-man experiment I may comply with for what was coming for us on January 6, 2025, the day the subsequent election is scheduled to be licensed—particularly if Trump loses.
And I may inform, even simply from that march, that some new sort of vitality was blooming in Brandon. No extra weed. No extra disguises. Postprison, his defiance had a unique tone, which I picked up after I was following him on the march and I overheard him point out demise a few occasions.
Fellows: Yeah. If it’s my time to die, it’s my time to die. I want to not, however life is gorgeous.
Rosin: I’m eavesdropping, by the best way. I bought right here on the time if you had been like, I can die. There was one thing about demise, and I used to be like, Huh?
Rosin: I sound awkwardly confused as a result of I used to be confused. Why does a 30-year-old suppose it could be his time to die? Die for what? And why so dramatic?
I’m Hanna Rosin.
Ober: And I’m Lauren Ober. And from the Atlantic, that is We Stay Right here Now.
Rosin: Okay, to know how Brandon went from “I’m not doing that,” on January 6, 2021, to “I’m able to die,” in 2024—a bit bit about Brandon: He’s now 30. He grew up in Schenectady, New York, born right into a line of army males going again earlier than the Civil Struggle. He informed me his grandfather was the primary inventor of a gun that shoots 3,000 bullets per minute. His dad was an Military sniper. However Brandon was totally different.
Fellows: I sort of went by means of this emo section. I had longer hair. I dyed it black, wore black garments, like rock-band garments.
Rosin: When he was 13, Brandon began carrying eyeliner, making an attempt to impress the emo ladies he was hanging out with. Normally, he would wipe it off earlier than he bought to his dad’s home, however sooner or later he forgot.
Fellows: And he’s like, Is that eyeliner in your face? And I used to be like, No. Clearly it was. I didn’t wipe it off. And he’s like, Don’t mislead me. He hates lies. And I used to be like, All proper. Sure. It’s. And he’s like, Brandon—that is the precise language he mentioned. He’s like, I can’t have fags in my home.
Rosin: He mentioned what now?
Fellows: He mentioned, I can’t have fags in my home.
Rosin: After this and a few minor home disputes, Brandon’s dad mentioned he couldn’t stick with him anymore—like, ever—though they did make up three years later. We couldn’t attain his dad for remark, though his mother confirmed the occasions. He spent the remainder of his teenage years dwelling solely at his mother’s home, till he didn’t need to try this anymore, and he discovered his personal option to dwell.
Fellows: So I’ve two tiny homes nearly always.
Rosin: Wait. You had been a tiny houser?
Fellows: Sure. I’ve been a tiny houser since 2016.
Rosin: Okay.
Fellows: I’ve a veggie-oil-powered bus. It’s nearly—it’s 85 p.c carbon-neutral. Very cool.
Rosin: From his tiny homes and his veggie bus, Brandon ran a tree-trimming enterprise and a chimney-cleaning enterprise. He’d by no means been to a Trump rally, or any rally, however determined to go that day. It’s sort of unclear why. Simply all this stuff he’d been aggravated about—COVID restrictions, small-business restrictions—it appeared extra enjoyable to be aggravated in a crowd.
The next morning, January 7, Brandon does what individuals do after an enormous occasion: brunch, at a campground with different January 6 tiny housers. Apparently, he’s not alone within the January 6–tiny houser Venn diagram overlap.
Anyway, it was at this brunch the place he discovered {that a} girl had been killed on the Capitol: Micki’s daughter, Ashli. Somebody confirmed him a video, and he cried.
Which for Brandon, is one thing. He doesn’t specific feelings in any simply readable approach and nearly by no means in public. You possibly can hear that in the best way he speaks. However that video of Ashli—it bought to him.
Fellows: And that’s a purpose why I confirmed again up on the eighth, to D.C. I got here again. However no person was there.
Rosin: No one was on the Capitol—only a huge subject suffering from empty water bottles and pepper-spray cans—so he went house. All the opposite individuals on the Capitol on January 6—they went house too.
After which the FBI started the most important manhunt in American historical past. Brokers combed by means of 1000’s of hours of video and sourced leads from an nameless group of on-line sleuths referred to as the Sedition Hunters.
At house, in New York, Brandon observed a brand new sort of customer to his LinkedIn profile: so-and-so from the FBI Albany subject workplace, the D.C. subject workplace. After which a cop confirmed up at his mother’s home, and Brandon started his journey again to D.C.
Fellows: It’s July 2, 2021, is after I reached the D.C. jail. So I stroll by means of the middle doorways, and—I child you not—inside 15 seconds, I hear on the audio system, One thing, one thing, one thing, medical employees, medical employees, stabbing sufferer.
Rosin: A few week later, he’s moved to a short lived cell and extra of the identical.
Fellows: I begin heading over to this basketball court docket, inside basketball court docket. So the primary most likely, like, two minutes, I see this dude come as much as this dude, and he says, The place’s my honey bun? And he, hastily, begins stabbing a man.
Rosin: Wait. You’re watching somebody—
Fellows: Yep.
Rosin: With what?
Fellows: I couldn’t make out what it was, however I noticed him stabbing him, and I noticed some blood. And I watched that simply with my jaw dropped, and I’m trying to my proper, and I’m seeing these 4 payphones. And all people’s simply speaking. They’re nonetheless speaking to the individual they’re on the cellphone with, like this occurs all—like that is nothing. I used to be like, I gotta get out of right here.
Rosin: Had been you genuinely freaked out?
Fellows: I went to go do pull-ups instantly.
Rosin: For lots of J6ers I’ve interviewed, consumption on the D.C. jail is seared into their brains. Most of them had by no means been to jail earlier than, a lot much less the D.C. jail, which is infamous for its violence. I’ve heard of J6ers who cried within the transport van after they realized the place they had been going.
However consumption isn’t the place they stayed. The inhabitants of the D.C. jail is about 90 p.c Black, and judges had been importing a bunch of fellows whose collective status was “white supremacist,” in order that they ended up housed in a segregated unit. The results of this had been big and typically absurd.
What resulted would ultimately grow to be referred to as the “Patriot Pod,” the place the place teams of J6ers had been imprisoned collectively, 20 to 30 at a time over three years. These are the folks that Micki and Nicole held their vigil for each evening over these two years.
By the point Brandon arrived in D.C., about six months after January 6, he already knew concerning the Patriot Pod.
Fellows: So we’re strolling in, and I’m simply imagining in my head. I’m like, Oh I’m gonna stroll in to cheers. Like, oh one other individual like, Hey. We’re sorry that is occurring to you. However hey—you recognize, you made it.
Rosin: There have been no cheers, however there was loads of goodwill. Plus, for Brandon, this was a who’s who of J6—individuals he’d examine or seen on YouTube through the countless hours he’d spent on home arrest.
Fellows: Individuals began coming as much as my cell and speaking to me. One standout was Julian Khater, as a result of he mentioned, Hey. I’m the man that they accused of killing Officer Sicknick. I’m like, No approach!
Rosin: This was the gang that Brandon was strolling into: Khater, who pleaded responsible to assaulting officers with a harmful weapon, and Man Reffitt, Nicole’s husband, who got here to the Capitol with a gun, and a man named Nate DeGrave, who bragged about punching a cop.
Fellows: Tons of individuals began coming over, they usually’re like, Hey. We’ve bought commissary for you. We’ve bought commissary. And I’m like, Oh. Okay. In order that made up for the not cheering.
Rosin: Fellow J6ers got here by Brandon’s cell and requested, Hey. You want a radio? Pen and paper? Want some further garments? They dropped off beef jerky, ramen, mac and cheese. Dozens got here by simply to introduce themselves and speak to the brand new man. By the tip of the day, Brandon had a stack of things exterior his cell and quite a lot of new pals.
Rosin: They’re simply providing you with stuff?
Fellows: Yeah.
Rosin: I imply, that is like—this appears like summer time camp.
Fellows: I need to watch out to say that it’s summer time camp as a result of, you recognize, we’re not getting daylight. We’re getting horrible meals. We’re getting—yeah, okay, cool—getting camp meals.
Nevertheless it appeared like at that second, regardless of all of the horrible stuff occurring, we had a very good sense of group. Not less than that’s what I used to be feeling at first. And like, we had been caring for one another.
Rosin: And why do you suppose it was like that?
Fellows: We’re the identical—like, all of us are there for the one occasion. This isn’t like, you recognize, within the different wings, the place it’s like, Oh, what are you in for? Everyone knows the occasion we’re in for. We simply, like, have totally different tales of what occurred at that occasion.
[Music]
Rosin: As a result of most J6ers had no legal information, the jail-ness of jail got here as a shock to them. Their households had been largely distant. They couldn’t shave. Their cells stank. And that is all occurring within the winters of 2021 and 2022, when COVID variants had been operating rampant, particularly in jails. Typically they needed to endure lengthy stretches of solitary confinement. Individuals informed me that by day three of being confined, they might hear actual disturbing moans coming from a number of the cells.
Throughout one nine-day stretch of COVID-induced solitary, Brandon sort of misplaced it. A fellow J6er, a man named Kash Kelly, was on element, which meant he may roam from cell to cell, and he got here to Brandon’s rescue.
Fellows: Kash comes as much as me, and he’s like, You okay, man? I’m like, Yeah. (Sighs.) After which he’s like, No. No. Are you actually okay? And I begin tearing up and bawling, as a result of I used to be, like—I didn’t count on to. I simply began bawling. And I, like, turned away from him. And he’s like, Oh, bro. Bro, you alright?
Rosin: The J6ers had been going by means of hell, however the distinction between them and the typical individual in D.C. jail—or, actually, any American jail—is that they had been going by means of hell collectively, so they might soothe one another with a attain out, some commissary, a well-timed joke.
Typically, they even discovered a option to have enjoyable. When the COVID period died down and the boys may spend extra day out of their cells, they got here up with one for the ages, one they’ll bear in mind at one million reunions down the highway. They referred to as it The Hopium Den.
On these nights, the boys of the Patriot Pod gathered their chairs right into a semicircle, their cozy amphitheater the positioning for the present. The emcee was a U.S. Particular Forces vet accused of beating a police officer on January 6 with a flagpole. In jail, his pretend mic was a mop.
The Hopium Den was a spot the place the J6ers turned the drudgery of jail into theater. For instance, one man took moldy bologna and rubbed it on one other man’s head and referred to as it a hair-growth business. One other man lifted his shirt up and ate coleslaw like a slob—apparently, he actually liked the gloopy jail coleslaw. This was a roast. They rapped diss tracks, wrote mushy poetry to fake they had been homosexual.
I’ve heard about so many Hopium Den skits, typically the fellows are snorting with laughter after they recount them to me. And I by no means perceive why they’re humorous. However that solely tells me that, as a lot as they had been harassed and bought fed up with one another typically, they nonetheless had one million inside jokes.
Nate DeGrave: Pricey fellow People, I by no means thought I’d write a letter like this.
Rosin: It’s not straightforward to mark precisely when these particular person J6ers grew to become the Patriot Pod—grew to become a unit—and when that unit grew to become an essential image to MAGA out on the earth. One essential early second got here in October 2021, when a man named Nate DeGrave wrote a letter to a right-wing media web site.
DeGrave: That is my cry for assist. My identify is Nathan DeGrave, and as a nonviolent participant on the January 6 rally, I spent the final 9 months detained as a political prisoner in pod C2B on the D.C. D.O.C., in any other case referred to as D.C.’s Gitmo.
Rosin: In his letter, Nate described the circumstances as “inhumane.” He mentioned the J6ers had been depressed and anxious from the “psychological abuse we endure.” He complained concerning the guards. After which got here the essential half: He used the phrases “political prisoner” and “D.C.’s Gitmo”—phrases that will shortly be in every single place.
Nate despatched the letter to a good friend he knew at Gateway Pundit, a right-wing media web site. And instantly, it caught fireplace. Marjorie Taylor Greene posted about it. Greg Kelly referred to as. Tucker Carlson talked about it.
DeGrave: It began to catch quite a lot of consideration, and extra and extra individuals had been adopting the identical phrases and phrases that we had been utilizing to explain ourselves.
Rosin: Nate DeGrave was on the cellphone along with his legal professional proper after his letter bought printed, and the legal professional was watching the GiveSendGo, which is a Christian crowdfunding web site. Plenty of individuals within the J6 pod use the positioning to boost funds for authorized charges.
DeGrave: I imply, it went from zero to, like, $20,000, $30,000 in a 10-, 15-minute interval.
Rosin: What?
DeGrave: After which I simply continued to climb from there. And I believe on the finish of the primary day, I used to be at most likely simply north of $70,000.
Rosin: In sooner or later.
DeGrave: In sooner or later. It was wonderful. I nearly forgot for a second that I used to be nonetheless in jail.
Rosin: The speedy virality confirmed one thing for them: Though their environment—iron bars, damaged rest room, curfew—informed them one story, You’re quickly banished from respectable society, that story, they had been beginning to imagine, was not true. They had been the respectable society. It was the skin that was improper. And perhaps the important thing factor that confirmed this new reality for them was what occurred with the track.
[J6 Prison Choir featuring Donald Trump, “Justice for All”]
Rosin: How did the singing begin? Like, how did that custom begin?
Scott Fairlamb: It was proper, I believe, after I had are available in that it began to take off. I’m unsure precisely who began it. It sort of simply snowballed, you recognize?
Rosin: That is Scott Fairlamb, who pleaded responsible to assaulting a police officer. Scott arrived within the Patriot Pod in March 2021.
Rosin: So it occurred at a sure time each evening?
Fairlamb: Each evening at 9 o’clock, we might get all people and make all people conscious at three minutes out.
Rosin: How?
Fairlamb: I might yell by means of the door, “Three minutes!” And everybody else may echo it: “Three minutes.” “Three minutes.” “Three minutes.” So all people could be prepared.
Rosin: Scott mentioned at first, the singing began out hesitant, sort of quiet. They weren’t precisely choir sorts, plus you by no means knew if the CO on obligation that evening may get pissed concerning the singing. However evening after evening, they did it. And at first, in these early months of the Patriot Pod, it wasn’t for anybody. There was no viewers. It was only for themselves.
Fairlamb: After which mid-song, you recognize, “And our flag was—” after which all people would yell, “—nonetheless there!” You possibly can really feel the constructing shake.
Rosin: Why “nonetheless there”? Why these phrases?
Fairlamb: As a result of we had been “nonetheless there.” It was a reminder.
Rosin: That what?
Fairlamb: That we stood up for what we imagine in and that we had been nonetheless patriots, irrespective of who wished to deem us as lower than that, and it was one thing that basically stored my morale and my love of nation intact.
Rosin: Like The Hopium Den, this singing had a component of theater. Not like The Hopium Den, this specific ritual unfold far and huge, from their little jailhouse group theater out to the political equal of Broadway.
If somebody made the inspirational musical, right here is how it could roll out: A bunch of males imagine they’ve been betrayed by their nation, they usually begin to style despair. With out their love of America, who even are they? Then sooner or later, considered one of them opens his mouth and warbles a patriotic tune.
[J6 Prison Choir featuring Donald Trump, “Justice for All”]
Rosin: One of many males—that’s Man Reffitt—tells his spouse about it—that’s Nicole. And sooner or later, she meets a brand new good friend, Micki, they usually, too, be part of the singing.
Individual on speaker: It’s 8:59. Let me say the one-minute warning—
Rosin: Fairly quickly, they recruit a small, novice choir. That’s the nightly vigil. They begin livestreaming the singing each evening, and somebody hears it and has an thought: Take this track plus Trump’s voice, and you’ve got magic.
[J6 Prison Choir featuring Donald Trump, “Justice for All”]
Rosin: Trump begins to make use of this recording as his marketing campaign walkout track, the identical track we heard at CPAC. It goes to No. 1 on iTunes.
At his first large official marketing campaign occasion, in Waco, Texas, in March 2023, Trump goes large and theatrical with it.
[J6 Prison Choir featuring Donald Trump, “Justice for All”]
Rosin: Big screens play dramatic scenes from January 6 as he speaks.
Donald Trump: Thanks very a lot, all people.
Rosin: And curtain.
Ober: In all this singing and fraternizing, there was one one that was on the fringes. Some guys would bully him, get on his case as a result of his cell was filthy. Within the Patriot Pod, Brandon stood out for the improper causes, so he got down to repair that. That’s after the break.
[Break]
Rosin: As Brandon spent extra time fraternizing with these guys, he began to suppose extra about a technique he was not like them.
The way in which Brandon noticed it, there was a shiny line within the pod. On one facet had been him and a few different guys—the nonviolent guys, he calls them, who, after they noticed bother, ducked. And on the opposite, heroes: individuals like Nicole’s husband, Man Reffitt, who’d introduced an precise gun to the Capitol. Eight months into jail for Brandon, he wished to be on the opposite facet of that line.
Fellows: These guys are the actual individuals, the actual heroes. I’m not a hero. I’m just a few fool that took selfies inside and smoked someone’s joint that was handed round. I used to be there to take selfies, and I simply occurred to get caught up on this crap. However these individuals had been really, it appeared, prepared, although they didn’t use weapons. After which I simply began—my eyes began opening up.
[Music]
Rosin: Right here was his intelligent thought: Among the detainees had been given these iPad-like units. The proof getting used in opposition to them consisted of movies, in order that they wanted to look at them to arrange a protection. And Brandon observed that on his machine, the digital camera hadn’t been turned off.
Fellows: Bro, a cockroach simply got here out of that. Maintain on.
Rosin: So he began to movie.
Fellows: Do you see him shifting round in there?
Rosin: He leaked these movies to Gateway Pundit, and on Could 25, 2022, they printed a narrative: “Unique Footage: Secret Video Recordings [Leaked] From Inside ‘The Gap’ of DC Gitmo.” It wasn’t “the opening,” only a common cell, however no matter. It’s a greater headline that approach. Quote, “First footage ever launched of cockroach and mildew infested cell of J6 political prisoner.”
His fellow detainees had been, for as soon as, calling Brandon Fellows “courageous.”
Fellows: I informed them, Hey, guys. Right here’s how we’re gonna sneak out future movies. Right here’s how we’re gonna do that. I really feel like I earned my respect, as a result of, bear in mind, a few of them didn’t—a few of them used to say, You’re not even a January 6er. A few of them used to say that as a result of, you recognize, I didn’t do something violent.
Rosin: Brandon couldn’t undo how he’d acted on January 6, 2021. However what he may do was pitch himself because the strategist of a future operation, no matter that operation could be.
By the point I met up with him, exterior the jail, the clock was ticking. The upcoming election was shut. And Brandon was strategizing. This time, some issues had been totally different: For one, he’s a mini movie star. Individuals from everywhere in the world have supplied him a spot to remain if he wants it. He’s had job gives, one from one of many many J6ers who’ve run or are planning to run for public workplace. All of the sudden, he appears to be in every single place.
In June, he popped up in my Twitter feed, going viral for making humorous faces behind Dr. Anthony Fauci at a public listening to. And in July, this got here up on our neighborhood textual content chain: D.C. Group Security Alert. J6er Brandon Fellows in a MAGA group home referred to as the Eagle’s Nest—sure, like Hitler—is bragging on Twitter about punching girls at native bars.
Punching girls at native bars? I’d recognized Brandon sufficient by now to suppose this was a bit out of character. Or perhaps I didn’t know Brandon. So very first thing I did, in fact, was watch the movies.
[Overlapping shouting, swearing]
Rosin: Greatest I can inform, here’s what occurred: The bar—which, by the best way, occurs to be a couple of minutes from my workplace—is packed for July 4. A lady sitting along with her boyfriend says one thing about Brandon’s MAGA hat, which is hanging from his backpack. Brandon is there with one other girl—I do know her from the vigil—and he or she begins filming and taunting the lady and her boyfriend.
Girl: Oh my god!
[Shouting]
Rosin: Then all of it breaks: The girl throws a punch, which lands on Brandon. He punches again. After which the boyfriend will get concerned, and by the tip, Brandon is pinning him down.
I can say this: Brandon didn’t begin it. However I also can say this: The trolling escalated fairly rapidly into an actual battle. And so I instantly felt extra urgency to determine what Brandon really meant at that Ashli rally when he mentioned he was “prepared to die,” as a result of on this bar incident, there was a really skinny line between phrases and precise violence, which is, clearly, related to present occasions.
Rosin: Like, how lengthy are you going to remain in D.C.? Like is that this—do you could have a plan right here?
Fellows: Yeah. I plan to remain ’til, like, January 7. (Laughs.)
Rosin: Wow.
Fellows: Yeah. That was my plan.
Rosin: That feels vaguely threatening.
Fellows: I may see why you’ll say that, particularly contemplating, you recognize, my emotions.
Rosin: About violence?
Fellows: Effectively, about how, man, I want, after seeing all of the chaos that’s occurred on the earth and to the nation, how I want individuals did extra on January 6—as a substitute of, like me, taking selfies and simply smiling. I believe it could have been higher off if individuals really would have really been there for—like, extra individuals would have really been there for an revolt.
Rosin: Greatest as I can inform, right here was the evolution of younger Brandon: When he arrived on the Patriot Pod a nonviolent J6er, he was a bit starstruck. The violent offenders had been, to him, hardcore. However when he left, they had been extra like exalted, not simply hardcore however righteous— extra like Founding Fathers.
Fellows: Who was it, Thomas Jefferson? He mentioned one thing alongside the traces of—I believe it was Thomas Jefferson—each 250 years or so, the tree of liberty must be—What’s it? Like, we’ll must have the blood of the tyrants and the patriots. Like, they’ll must cleanse it. It’ll must be cleansed with the blood of the patriots and the tyrants.
And that’s such a scary thought. I don’t need that to occur. I believe extra individuals, as I regularly level out, I believe extra individuals would have suffered if we didn’t have the Civil Struggle and the Union didn’t win.
That’s how I sort of, like, view it. Like, All proper, are we there? Do we want one thing like that to be able to, like, save extra lives? That’s how I view it. I do know individuals disagree, however that’s what I look to.
Rosin: So what he’s saying is that typically blood must be shed within the short-term to revive America to its unique goal within the long-term, or some illogical logic like that.
Fellows: That is all make imagine, by the best way. That is—
Rosin: I can’t inform with you what’s make imagine.
Fellows: No. No. No. I’m not making it up. I’m saying, although, I hope that it doesn’t come to this. You understand, I’d be good if Trump simply bought in, and if he simply does what he did earlier than, that’ll be a pleasant Band-Support. We want one thing a bit bit extra intense, and I’m hoping it goes a bit bit extra intense.
Rosin: However there’s only a risk that he’ll legitimately lose this election, like, on the poll field.
Fellows: Yeah. I believe at that time, you recognize, individuals may need to do one thing.
[Music]
Rosin: Donald Trump has been saying that he’ll solely lose if Democrats cheat like hell. Brandon is taking that one step additional: He’s saying it doesn’t matter if Trump loses legitimately or illegitimately. Both approach, individuals may need to do one thing. So I suppose now I had my reply—that is what Brandon meant when he mentioned on the Ashli Memorial Day march, “It’s my time to die.”
Possibly the Brandons of the world identical to to speak. Possibly the FBI might be higher ready. I don’t know. However I can let you know that quite a bit has modified since Brandon first confirmed up on the Capitol. The vitality of those J6ers—it’s not shocked and naive, prefer it was 4 years in the past. It’s extra calculated and steely. This complete “cleaning with the blood of the patriots” factor that he’s speaking about isn’t pondering of it as an accident that occurred sooner or later, when issues bought uncontrolled. It’s extra like a plan.
Ober: Quickly after that incident on the bar the place Brandon punched a girl, Micki and Brandon “had phrases” about his antics, largely as a result of she doesn’t like drawing that sort of destructive consideration to her home or her trigger.
However these amped-up younger patriots and the ladies of the Eagle’s Nest—they could be shifting in several instructions. That’s in our subsequent and last episode of We Stay Right here Now.
[Music]
Ober: We Stay Right here Now is a manufacturing of The Atlantic. The present was reported, written, and govt produced by me, Lauren Ober. Hanna Rosin reported, wrote, and edited the collection. Our senior producer is Rider Alsop. Our producer is Ethan Brooks. Unique scoring, sound design, and blend engineering by Brendan Baker.
This collection was edited by Scott Stossel and Claudine Ebeid. Reality-checking by Michelle Ciarrocca. Artwork path by Colin Hunter. Undertaking administration by Nancy DeVille.
Rosin: Claudine Ebeid is the chief producer of Atlantic audio, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor. The Atlantic’s govt editor is Adrienne LaFrance. Jeffrey Goldberg is The Atlantic’s editor in chief.