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January 6 may have light for Republicans as a day they’d moderately not discuss. However then six months later, Donald Trump landed on a narrative that’s grow to be helpful to him. He began speaking about Ashli Babbitt, the lady who was fatally shot by a Capitol Police officer. Over a number of weeks, Trump began spinning a brand new story: Babbitt was a martyr, and the folks imprisoned for January 6 have been political prisoners, and the villain was the Deep State, the identical shady entity that denied him the presidency.
On this episode of We Dwell Right here Now, we hint how Micki Witthoeft, the mom of Ashli Babbitt, acquired Trump’s consideration and should have modified the course of historical past in consequence. Witthoeft by no means had something to do with politics earlier than her daughter was killed. However by her fixed presence at January 6 vigils and rallies, she managed to create a brand new actuality.
That is the third episode of We Dwell Right here Now, a six-part sequence about what occurred after we came upon that our new neighbors have been supporting January 6 insurrectionists.
The next is a transcript of the episode:
Lauren Ober: I ponder what justice seems to be like and what occurs if it doesn’t come.
Hanna Rosin: It is a query Lauren would ask Micki rather a lot.
Micki Witthoeft: I need to see someone held accountable for my daughter’s loss of life.
Nicole Reffitt: Precisely.
Witthoeft: You recognize, I need to see lots of people held accountable for my daughter’s loss of life and the best way she’s been handled since then.
Ober: By whom?
Witthoeft: By those that contemplate her disposable.
Ober: What occurs if nobody is held accountable in a means that feels right for you?
Witthoeft: Effectively, that’s an excellent query, Lauren. However I assume, then, I’ll simply need to take my dying breath attempting to carry that about.
Rosin: Micki has been in D.C., removed from house, for a very long time. She has 4 sons and two grandsons, one she barely is aware of as a result of most of his life, she’s been 3,000 miles away on “Freedom Nook,” chasing this slippery justice—these somebodies to carry accountable, no matter “accountable” means. After which there’s Nicole.
Reffitt: Yeah, it seems to be like a really lengthy street. My household isn’t going to be the identical as they have been previous to January 6 ever once more. Micki’s household isn’t going to be the identical. Ashli’s by no means coming again. However being right here in D.C. and seeing what that appears like, we ask ourselves that on a regular basis. You recognize, like, What are we doing? We are saying that rather a lot to one another.
Rosin: Lauren and I’ve that very same query. What did they get accomplished right here? Seen a method, Micki Witthoeft and Nicole Reffitt have spent 700-plus evenings distant from their households to prepare a small, fringey protest behind the D.C. jail. However seen one other means, these two girls diverted the course of historical past.
Or perhaps each are true, as a result of this can be a very bizarre political period the place fringe can merge with energy, and all of a sudden the world is the wrong way up.
I’m Hanna Rosin.
Ober: And I’m Lauren Ober. And from The Atlantic, that is: We Dwell Right here Now.
On this episode, we attempt to tease out how Micki’s private mission and Donald Trump’s political mission collided with one another. Warning: Hanna and I don’t land in the identical place on this one, and we have now our very personal hot-mic second debating issues. So fortunate for you.
In her earlier life, Micki wasn’t all that political. However virtually as quickly as she realized her daughter died, politics got here up. On January 7, she gave an interview to Fox 5 in San Diego.
[Music]
Witthoeft: I wish to invite Donald J. Trump to say her identify out loud, to acknowledge the passing of his loudest and proudest supporter, Ashli Elizabeth Babbitt.
Rosin: It’s revealing that at her saddest, Micki thought to name on Trump. You possibly can hear that and suppose, Possibly there’s a touch of a risk right here that she thinks he ought to take some duty for Ashli’s loss of life.
There was one other girl who died on January 6 on the Capitol: Rosanne Boyland, a Trump supporter who was round Ashli’s age. She was crushed by the mob simply outdoors the Capitol. The day after her loss of life, her brother-in-law squarely and publicly blamed her loss of life on Trump and QAnon for main her astray.
Micki, too, may have determined that Trump unfold the lie that the election was stolen to assuage his wounded ego, which lured her daughter to D.C. and acquired her killed. However she didn’t. One thing moved her in the wrong way. And for hundreds—who is aware of, tens of millions—of individuals, the which means of January 6 began to shift alongside along with her.
Trump didn’t know Micki’s identify on January 7, as a result of again then, he was on the defensive. There have been reviews that some Republican leaders have been going to ask him to resign.That by no means occurred. As an alternative, they settled at: How about we simply neglect this entire January sixth factor? Simply don’t point out it.
After which round July 4, 2021, in a sequence of speeches, candidate Trump took a daring left flip—truly, a proper flip.
[Crowd noise]
Donald Trump: Wow, that’s lots of people. Thanks.
Rosin: It began, as greatest as I can inform, at a rally. It was July third—almost seven months after the Capitol riots. It was a Saturday in Sarasota, Florida. Trump is hitting all his typical rally factors, after which you may hear him attain for one thing new.
Trump: The Republicans need to get themselves an actual chief. You bought some nice senators, however they need to get themselves an actual chief. And by the best way, who shot Ashli Babbitt? Who shot Ashli Babbitt?
Rosin: With an investigation into January 6 simply getting underway, Trump tried a brand new tack.
Trump: Who? Who shot Ashli Babbitt? I spoke to her mom the opposite day. An unimaginable girl. She’s simply devastated prefer it occurred yesterday. And it’s a horrible factor. Shot, increase, there was no cause for it. Who shot Ashli Babbitt? It’s acquired to be launched.
Rosin: 4 days later, he was speaking about it once more, this time at a press convention in New Jersey. At this level, the investigation was nonetheless not releasing the identify of Michael Byrd, the Capitol Police officer who shot Ashli.
Trump: However the person who shot Ashli Babbitt—increase, proper by way of the pinnacle. Simply increase. There was no cause for that. They’ve already written it off. They mentioned, That case is closed.
Rosin: She was shot within the shoulder, not the pinnacle. However Trump wasn’t thinking about particulars right here. They’ve already written off Ashli’s homicide. They mentioned the case is closed. Who was “they”? After all, the identical individuals who stole the election.
5 days after that, Trump is on Fox Information:
Trump: Who shot Ashli Babbitt? Individuals need to know. And why?
Rosin: Now, the Massive Lie may simply have light away—simply been recorded in historical past books as that second when a person named Donald Trump tried to subvert the peaceable switch of energy. However phew—democracy is resilient. The Division of Justice closed its investigation into Michael Byrd and mentioned there was no cause to press prices. Downside solved.
However that’s not what occurred. Ashli’s loss of life grew to become probably the most direct and vivid option to give the Massive Lie new life. Trump invoked Ashli at rallies and on TV and in press conferences. He had landed on a robust new technique, and he labored it for the higher a part of a yr.
Ober: Ultimately, Micki landed in D.C., and inside a month, she and Trump, who had each been speaking about Ashli individually, have been now speaking about Ashli collectively. It occurred in September 2022, when Trump referred to as into the vigil Micki was internet hosting that evening.
Witthoeft: You’re on livestream with completely different international locations and our crowd outdoors. Thanks for calling, and also you’re on. Go.
Trump: Okay. Effectively, Micki, it’s an honor to be with you. And to all people listening, it’s a horrible factor that has occurred to lots of people which can be being handled very, very unfairly. We love Ashli, and it was so horrible what occurred to her. Micki, you’re asking me to simply converse to all people, however we can’t enable this to occur to our nation. So God bless all people. We’re working very arduous.
Witthoeft: Thanks for calling, President Trump. I do know the lads inside admire you, as I do as properly.
Trump: And say hi there to all people.
Rosin: This is the second their missions collided. Micki had requested for Trump to say her daughter’s identify out loud, and he did. He mentioned, “We love Ashli.” So when Micki and Nicole say to themselves, What did we get accomplished on Freedom Nook?, this can be a second they’ll level to.
However many a grieving American mom has obtained a name from a robust politician. It may be only a fleeting second of political theater, or it could result in one thing a lot greater. On this case, I might argue that it’s the latter. And I can again that up based mostly on what Lauren noticed when she adopted Micki to the most important occasion on the conservative political calendar.
[Music]
Ober: In February of this yr, I tagged together with Micki and the “Eagle’s Nest” crew to CPAC, the Conservative Political Motion Convention. If Washington is Hollywood for ugly folks, then CPAC is its Sundance. It’s been the premier Republican conference for the previous 50 years. It often occurs simply outdoors D.C., in suburban Maryland, and it’s grow to be a spot for conservative candidates to dry run new messaging.
Witthoeft: I believe the check-in line goes to be a freaking zoo, as a result of we don’t but have our badges.
Ober: Yeah, however every little thing’s, like, digital, so it appeared like they’ve sufficient spots.
Witthoeft: Yeah, however there’s numerous outdated folks, like me, that may’t work our shit.
Ober: After all, the very first thing I wished to do after we acquired to CPAC was go to the seller corridor.
Ober (on tape): So now I’m in, like, Vendor Village space.
Ober: And I used to be not disillusioned. There have been people hawking MAGA hammocks and vibration plates that shake your cellulite away and candles that smelled like freedom, allegedly. The drag queen Girl Maga was there, waving adoringly to her fan. And did I catch a glimpse of Mr. MyPillow himself, Mike Lindell? Sure, I did.
Ober: Additionally on provide—
Vendor: You wanna play some pinball?
Ober: I’m horrible at it.
Vendor: That’s okay.
Ober: However certain. Why not?
[Game noises]
Ober: A January 6 pinball recreation—
[Game noises]
Ober: What do I get if I win?
Vendor: You get a excessive rating.
[Laughter]
Ober: —the place I may get factors for storming the Capitol.
Vendor: Save America. You made it to the Capitol.
Ober: Oh, like January 6.
[Game noises]
Ober: Okay, I wasn’t there to play Rebel Pinball. I used to be there to look at.
As I adopted Micki across the conference corridor, it was clear to me that she was right here to play a task. She was the residing, respiratory mom of the J6 martyr, full with the costume: a T-shirt that learn “ashli babbitt, murdered by capitol police, january 6, 2021.” Loads of folks acknowledged her. They did these unhappy, little pity smiles and requested for a handshake or a hug or a photograph. Various folks approached Micki and requested if they might pray for her.
Stranger 1: Expensive Lord, thanks for this girl that’s right here. And thanks for her bravery, and for her taking this season of ache and turning it into one thing that’s to your glory, Lord. And we all know that you’re victorious, and you’ll encompass her together with your consolation and your peace, and you’ll infuse her with power, and simply bless this entire weekend and each interplay she has. And we all know that each one is completed for the glory of you. In Jesus’s identify, amen.
Witthoeft: Thanks, girls.
Stranger 1: You’re welcome. Good work. Good work.
Witthoeft: Thank y’all.
Ober: Three-plus years into taking part in this position, I may see it was carrying on Micki. She seemed exhausted. All through the convention, stranger after stranger approached Micki.
Stranger 2: I’m so sorry to your loss. These folks will probably be held accountable.
Witthoeft: I certain hope so.
Stranger 2: Justice will probably be served.
Witthoeft: Thanks, sir. I admire that. I hope so.
Ober: Micki is gracious about it, however I’ve been round her lengthy sufficient by now to know that there are different issues effervescent underneath the floor.
Ober: This occurs time and again and once more all through the three-day conference. And Micki is gracious about it, however I’ve been round her lengthy sufficient by now to know that there are different issues effervescent underneath the floor.
Ober: Is it tiring when folks come as much as you and so they say, Oh, I’m so sorry? Like—
Witthoeft: That’s not tiring. There are specific phrases that I discover offensive. And folks don’t imply them offensively, however generally they—
Ober: Like what?
Witthoeft: Like, the one which at all times will get me is: It may have been me. I don’t like that when folks say that to me. My response is, Okay, thanks. Good to fulfill you. Bye.
Ober: Proper.
Witthoeft: I imply, I strive to not be impolite, as a result of I do know folks don’t imply it in a option to be offensive. It’s recognition of Ashli’s sacrifice on a sure stage. So I don’t need to be offensive again at them, as a result of I don’t really feel like they imply to be offensive to me. So I simply, , attempt to be as well mannered as doable and transfer on.
Ober: Proper. Proper.
Witthoeft: Strive to not say, Yeah? Effectively, I want it was, and it wasn’t my daughter, as a result of that’s not applicable both. However the reality is, I want it was anyone else. So , I don’t know the way you reply to that as—
Espresso! Massive-ass signal proper there.
Ober: Okay, that dialog ended a bit abruptly. Anyway, on the final day of CPAC, Hanna got here, and we met up within the press part, which seemed prefer it was extra full of right-wing TikTokers than precise conventional journalists. Hanna and I have been consuming snacks and ready for Trump’s speech to begin when one thing acquainted came to visit the loudspeaker.
J6 Choir: O say are you able to see, by the daybreak’s early gentle—
Ober: My first thought was, What is that this rubbish recording? Absolutely, the Trump marketing campaign may have discovered a higher-quality rendition of our nationwide anthem.
However then we realized why the music appeared like that. This was sung on the D.C. jail, the J6 jail choir, which Micki performed each evening on the vigil over the loudspeakers.
Trump: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA of America.
Ober: Combined with Donald Trump reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.
Rosin: This was the combat music for the “Patriot Pod” prisoners, the musical backdrop to Micki’s dream about Ashli. And now the doable subsequent future president was taking it up as his personal.
Trump: I stand earlier than you at present, not solely as your previous and hopefully future president, however as a proud political dissident. I’m a dissident.
Rosin: And on this speech—the darkest one in every of his marketing campaign thus far—he vowed to get revenge.
Trump: For hardworking Individuals, November 5 will probably be our new liberation day. However for the liars and cheaters and fraudsters and censors and imposters who’ve commandeered our authorities, it is going to be their judgment day! Their judgment day.
[Crowd cheers]
Rosin: It will be an exaggeration to say Micki orchestrated this political second. In any case, she’d by no means actually been into politics. Her San Diego life was simply wonderful with out mainlining Fox Information. Possibly the extra correct option to say it’s that between her dream and her enduring grief, she manifested this second—the place Trump and the J6ers grew to become one—the place Trump mentioned time and again that if he grew to become president, he would pardon the J6ers, principally, magically fulfilling Ashli’s imaginative and prescient in Micki’s dream.
Ober: The day after CPAC, we bumped into Micki whereas strolling the canine and requested her what she considered Trump’s speech. Apparently, she hadn’t seen it. The Eagle’s Nest crew left and went house earlier than Trump even took the stage. When the politicians come within the room, she mentioned, that’s when the bullshit begins.
Rosin: So the Micki–MAGA relationship—it’s fairly sophisticated. That’s after the break.
[Break]
Ober: If you happen to ask Micki if she thinks all of the jailed J6ers needs to be pardoned for his or her actions on the Capitol, her reply might be not going to be the one you anticipate. Greater than as soon as, Micki has informed me that not everybody acted like a Boy Scout that day. So the extra violent ones—or the oldsters who introduced implements, like pitchforks, say—deserved to be punished. So Trump saying he’s gonna pardon all J6ers doesn’t actually transfer her a lot. However she sees the utility of Trump speaking about January 6. She will use him to carry consideration to her trigger, similar to he has used her daughter as a marketing campaign prop.
There are different issues about Micki that don’t essentially monitor with MAGA lunacy. She thinks that healthcare shouldn’t be tied to employment and that there needs to be time period limits for judges and lawmakers. She’s fairly pro-LGBTQ, since Ashli was bisexual. And as soon as, we had a five-minute dialog about gun management the place we virtually—virtually—got here to a shared conclusion.
Now, that doesn’t imply that Micki is turning blue any time quickly. She’s extra like a populist libertarian who usually says impolitic issues, even dangerous issues—just like the time proper earlier than I met her, when she mentioned this about Lieutenant Michael Byrd.
Witthoeft: Michael Byrd must swing from the tip of a rope, together with Nancy Pelosi.
Ober: Byrd is Black. Micki is white. Which she mentioned when she introduced up the remark to me.
Witthoeft: You recognize, I imply, there’s a lot discuss me saying Michael Byrd needs to be swinging from the tip of a rope. It’s saying, Oh, take a look at her. She’s calling for a lynching. I’m not calling for a lynching.
Ober: Her clarification wasn’t exculpatory by any means, and nobody needs to be calling for anybody’s execution. However I wished to listen to Micki out. So we’re gonna let this run as a result of she landed in a spot I didn’t see coming.
Witthoeft: A dangling and a lynching are two various things. A dangling happens after a trial and also you’re pronounced responsible, and your ass will get hung. That’s the way it occurs. It’s occurred. And it’s occurred not simply to Black folks, particularly. Lynchings—most of them are Black folks. However hangings—hangings are retribution for one thing that you simply acquired coming to you. They usually used to do it proper on the battlefield. If you happen to acquired convicted of treason, they might both shoot you or hold you. And that’s the best way I meant that. And I mentioned it about Nancy Pelosi too, and she or he’s about as white-bread as you come, which is one other factor when folks begin speaking about white privilege. I’m not that white-privilege particular person. I’ve by no means had cash. Ashli doesn’t come from white privilege. She labored arduous for something she ever had, and so has my household.
Ober: Certain. I’ve labored arduous for every little thing I’ve, and I even have an unlimited quantity of privilege, largely resulting from my race and financial standing.
Witthoeft: I perceive that Black folks have been handled otherwise than white folks have on this nation for a very long time—properly, ceaselessly. However I believed that we have been making big strides in that, till, —till I got here to this metropolis, truly. However what I’ll say is: Being the mother or father of a kid that was murdered underneath coloration of authority.
Ober: Yeah.
Witthoeft: It does make me—’trigger you don’t know till —it does make me determine considerably with Black and brown moms who’ve been going by way of this for many years, as a result of their kids have been murdered underneath coloration of authority with none avenue for retribution, for years.
Ober: You possibly can see how a Black mom whose youngster was killed by police would ceaselessly distrust authority. Micki landed in the identical place. Just for her, the distrust was supercharged.
Witthoeft: Once they killed Ashli, they took much more from me than my daughter. They took my entire perception within the system that runs America from me. Although, , It’s slightly dangerous; it’s principally good. I don’t imagine that anymore. And so in that course of, I don’t know what I imagine them able to. Is it consuming infants and consuming their blood? I don’t suppose so, however I don’t know. I imply, I don’t know what they’re as much as. I actually don’t know what they’re as much as.
[Music]
Ober: Years from now, when Micki and Nicole ask themselves the query, What did we truly accomplish in D.C.? they could give you a solution that has nothing to do with Trump or Justice for January 6. These two girls who had solely ever identified themselves as wives and moms realized they might whisper in a president’s ear and whip up the media and grow to be unattainable to disregard. They usually may’ve solely accomplished it as a result of they walked out of that courtroom collectively, hand in hand.
One of many issues I’ve been most shocked about is the depth of their friendship, which is just a few years outdated. Since Ashli died, Micki can barely sleep. She’s had panic that takes her breath away and nightmares that make her weep. She will’t bear to sleep in a room by herself. So she and Nicole share the basement of the Eagle’s Nest, their mattresses pushed face to face. Oliver, the canine, plops himself in between the 2 of them like a canine headboard. Simply listening to Nicole and her canine softly breathe is a consolation to Micki.
Witthoeft: I’ve bonded with Nicole in ways in which I’ve bonded with only a few folks. There’s actually nothing about me that Nicole doesn’t—I imply, I’m certain there’s issues, however there’s nothing I wouldn’t say to her. Possibly that’s as a result of we sleep face to face, and we yap all evening, however I don’t know.
Ober: Micki had no concept who Nicole Reffitt was when she confirmed up at Man Reffitt’s sentencing in August of 2022. However their connection was virtually instantaneous.
Witthoeft: If you happen to imagine in love at first sight, which I don’t actually do—I imagine in sexual attraction at first sight, however I don’t learn about love at first sight. However I believe if that’s doable, then friendship at first sight is. And after I first noticed Nicole, like I mentioned, I had by no means met her, and I knew immediately who she was. And he or she simply had this defiant, “strong-ass girl” look on her face, and I simply knew she was someone I might be buddies with.
Ober: There was one second early on of their residing collectively that type of sealed the deal for Micki.
Witthoeft: However after I knew that we’d be buddies ceaselessly, oddly sufficient—why do you at all times make me cry, Lauren? Shit. It was the day my canine died. As a result of she, —I used to be on the sofa with Fuggles, and I couldn’t make it occur. I used to be like, I simply—I wished to name.
Ober: However she couldn’t. So Nicole referred to as the vet and had Fuggles put down. That small kindness meant every little thing to Micki.
Witthoeft: I simply thought at that minute that I really liked her. I do.
[Music]
Ober: Now, as a result of Nicole and Micki are sometimes seen collectively, and due to that one hand-holding scene after Man’s sentencing, the web haters have had a subject day. Somebody made a music video that mashed up their voices from the vigil with overtly sexual innuendo and patriotic imagery. It’s too crass for me to play for you right here, however I’m certain you understand how to Google, should you’re .
Not too long ago, somebody despatched Nicole a cardboard mailing tube that mentioned the phrases “oversizeddildos.com” plastered on the aspect. The tube was empty. Proper after the mailer arrived, Micki texted me a photograph. “Did you prank us?” she wrote. For the document, I didn’t. She wrote again: “I informed you I hate it when the left is humorous. There wasn’t something within the canister. Extra empty guarantees.”
Ober: After I had an excellent giggle about the entire state of affairs, I pushed Nicole to attempt to put a reputation to the love that they’ve for one another.
Ober: Lots of people’s intimate relationships can’t be outlined. And so I may ask you, Okay, is it such as you really feel like a sister bond?
Reffitt: It’s extra.
Ober: Is it such as you really feel, like—proper. Like a—
Reffitt: It’s not sexual, however it’s extra.
Ober: Yeah. Like an intimate-partner bond.
Reffitt: Oh yeah. It’s undoubtedly an intimate-partner bond.
Ober: Proper.
Reffitt: I don’t even know what sort of love that have to be, as a result of I really like Micki greater than a friendship love. However , there’s not numerous the sexual side of it. However there’s intimacy.
Ober: Mm-hmm. What does “intimacy” imply?
Reffitt: I don’t know. You possibly can have intimate moments with somebody whereas being absolutely clothed. You recognize, like, you may share very shut emotions with out touching anybody. So these are intimate moments, I believe.
Ober: Like, give me an instance.
Reffitt: Effectively, I’m not gonna inform you shit. I’m already telling you all this. I do know, however like—
Ober: No. As a result of I’m simply attempting to know.
Reffitt: I imply, I believe that is—properly, this can be a stage of intimacy. It’s a stage that we’re having.
Ober: You and me?
Reffitt: Yeah. We’re being intimate. I imply, I’m being intimate with you.
Ober: Proper. It’s not an equal change.
Reffitt: Precisely. Like, you’re not being intimate with me, however I completely am being intimate with you. So I’m being very weak.
Ober: Mm-hmm.
Reffitt: However Micki is reciprocal. I imply, like, we’re sharing that.
Ober: Mm-hmm.
[Music]
Rosin: Would you say that you simply guys have been buddies?
Ober: I assume it is dependent upon what your model of buddy is. No. I imply, we’re neighbors.
Rosin: I pressed Lauren rather a lot about this. Clearly, she was a journalist, and it was her job to spend time with these guys. However had she grow to be, like, buddies buddies with them? Is {that a} good factor? Is it harmful? Generally we had fights about it. This one, for instance—it’s the hot-mic second we promised you.
Rosin: I really feel so in a different way than you do about this. I don’t spend this a lot time with them. What I discover on the vigil just isn’t what you discover on the vigil. I don’t suppose it’s fucking cute in any respect.
Ober: You suppose I believe it’s cute? No. It’s fucking bizarre. However I additionally don’t suppose that it’s, like, shredding—
Rosin: No. I don’t suppose it’s bizarre. I believe it’s completely damaging.
Ober: However, see, I don’t have any proof that it’s. Like I don’t have proof that it’s damaging. I don’t have any notion that it’s any—
Rosin: How about Trump taking part in that music at Waco, Texas?
Ober: After all, nevertheless it wasn’t in regards to the J6—
Rosin: Who acquired that music into the general public consciousness? Micki.
Ober: No, she didn’t, truly. She had nothing to do with it.
Rosin: Lauren, we simply really feel in a different way. To me, it’s like, I believe Micki is a beautiful, attention-grabbing, sophisticated particular person. And I believe this mission that she’s on in D.C. is completely damaging.
Ober: Present me proof of destruction. That isn’t new. They’ve a platform—
Rosin: Okay, Micki didn’t trigger it. Micki didn’t carry it into being. Micki created an viewers for it. She brings Trump to them. She brings these politicians to them.
Ober: However it’s not—
Rosin: So you need to account for the issues that Micki is supporting and laying out the pink carpet for. Like, her ideology is significant.
Rosin: I dug in. This combat went on for, like, an hour and a half extra. And by the tip of it, nothing was resolved.
In our subsequent episode: Lauren will get even nearer to the motion, and she or he asks herself whether or not she ruined a J6er’s life.
Marie Johnatakis: It was actually stunning that they took him into custody then. And I simply bear in mind considering, like, He’s not a hazard. He’s been out this entire time. Are you able to please simply allow us to? You recognize, we simply want slightly extra assist.
Ober: That’s on the following episode of We Dwell Right here Now.
[Music]
Ober: We Dwell Right here Now is a manufacturing of The Atlantic. The present was reported, written, and government produced by me, Lauren Ober. Hanna Rosin reported, wrote, and edited the sequence. Our senior producer is Rider Alsop. Our producer is Ethan Brooks. Authentic scoring, sound design, and blend engineering by Brendan Baker.
This sequence was edited by Scott Stossel and Claudine Ebeid. Reality-checking by Michelle Ciarrocca. Artwork path by Colin Hunter. Undertaking administration by Nancy DeVille.
Claudine Ebeid is the chief producer of Atlantic audio, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor. The Atlantic’s government editor is Adrienne LaFrance. Jeffrey Goldberg is The Atlantic’s editor in chief.